The Interview - 2

Just how informed, uninformed or fed on angled propaganda are pro-Palestinian protesters?

The Interview posted a couple of weeks ago was well received, so I’ve decided to do a follow-up instead of this week’s Hassan and Ahmed spoof.

DS Byrne will feature again, but this time accompanied by a more experienced anti-terrorism officer, DS Thomas, their focus this time on Kevin’s friend, Bernie – a more die-hard and experienced protestor.

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DS Byrne: My name’s DS Byrne, and I’ll be conducting today’s interview along with my colleague, DS Thomas. And your name?

Bernie: Bernie… Bernie Watson.

DS Byrne: Age?

Bernie: Twenty-one.

DS Byrne: Employed, unemployed or a student?

Bernie: Like my friend, Kevin, who you arrested last week – I’m at Goldsmith’s College, but studying Art and Design. (Holds a hand out) But what is this? Arresting him and now me? Some kind of targeted persecution of Goldsmith students?

DS Byrne: (Smiles softly) It was in fact the same poster he was carrying with you last week that got you initially spotted…

DS Thomas (Interjecting) But the other smaller poster you suddenly raised that got you arrested.

Bernie: What other smaller poster?

DS Thomas: Don’t play cute. The one you suddenly raised up halfway through the march proclaiming Hamas as ‘Glorious Freedom Fighters.’

Bernie: What’s wrong with that? I’m entitled to my opinion on them. And I’m not the only one to have described them as ‘Freedom Fighters’. The march organizers, Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, regularly do that.

DS Byrne: So, was it them who encouraged you carry the ‘Hamas, Freedom Fighters’ banner?

Bernie: (Smiles slyly, wags a finger) Ah, you won’t catch me out like that… trying to lay blame on them.

DS Thomas: So, they didn’t ask or urge you to carry the Hamas banner.

Bernie: (Shaking head) No comment.

DS Byrne: Okay. So, we’ll do the talking for you. (Fresh breath) It becomes obvious you knew you shouldn’t show that banner, because as you well know it’s prohibited under UK law to show support for a terrorist group…

Bernie: The BBC doesn’t term them a terrorist group.

DS Thomas: No. But as their ‘get out clause’ for that, each time they clearly say, ‘Proscribed as a terrorist group by the UK government.’ So, you don’t have any good excuse for not knowing that.

DS Byrne: And we, the police, follow the government’s directive on that, not the BBC’s or the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign.

DS Thomas: But I think it becomes clear that you knew you shouldn’t have been carrying that banner from the fact you kept it hidden, face towards your chest, until midway into the march.

DS Byrne: And we could also argue that you knew you shouldn’t be displaying the ‘River to Sea’ banner since we told your friend, Kevin, just last week that it equalled a call for genocide. Though that’s a lesser issue, because we have no clear directives to stop and arrest for that.

Bernie: (Head shifting back and forth between them with the verbal tennis, he starts to look rattled for the first time) Okay, so I made a mistake. Followed the BBC and PSC directive rather than the government. (Holds a hand out in plea) What? Are you going to arrest Jeremy Corbyn for saying the same?

DS Byrne: (Smiles thinly). I think maybe he’s suffered enough from losing the 2019 elections for saying similar.

Bernie: (Nods) Everyone knows that was because of the Israeli Lobby kicking up a storm.

DS Thomas: (Grimaces) You really are a lost cause, aren’t you? You mean everyone, as in your college friends or fellow protestors… or maybe those on twitter or at Glastonbury?

Bernie: Well, yes… Jeremy had tremendously strong support on twitter, and everyone at Glastonbury was praising him.

DS Byrne: Yes, we saw and heard it. Singing out ‘Oh, Jeremy Corbyn’ to the White Stripes song… much the same people who were shouting F-Boris a bit later.

Bernie: That’s right… Jeremy had absolute support. Then the Israeli lobby kicks up this anti-Semitism storm and he ends up losing the election.

DS Byrne: (Shakes his head) You probably even think we’re controlled by the Israeli Lobby.

Bernie: I wouldn’t put it past them. After all, the Jews control everything.

DS Thomas: (Smiles slyly) Sure, they control everything. Yet the media right now is angled against Israel, and there are street demos every week in support of Palestine and against Zionism. Doesn’t look like much control to me.

Bernie: They daren’t clamp down on the protests. It would look too much like suppression of free speech. Besides, there’s a Muslim Mayor in power now who is obviously in favour of them.

DS Thomas: (Gestures) Surely, if the Israeli Lobby was that powerful, they’d have made sure he never got into power. And doesn’t look much like ‘freedom of speech’ to me.

Bernie: In what way?

DS Thomas: Street demos every week. Doesn’t leave much room for any other voice or protests, does it?

DS Byrne: And on the few occasions when there have been pro-Israel demos, your mob comes out again to agitate against them, hold back or strangle their voices. And when they put up posters on lampposts of hostages being held, your lot tears them down. Doesn’t seem like you respect free speech much the other way.

Bernie: Now you’re just twisting things around to suit. But must admit, you two make a good tag-team (Smiles lopsidedly) Are you sure you’re not in the pay of the Israeli Lobby?

DS Thomas: (Matches the smile, then it drops sharply) Problem is, Bernie. You don’t live in the real world. The support for Corbyn on twitter or at Glastonbury simply wasn’t represented in the world outside. Only twenty-percent of those over fifty might go on twitter, and fewer still at Glastonbury. Even now these street demos you’re taking part in, sometimes a hundred-thousand strong, might give you the impression that the nation as a whole agrees with them. But on a recent poll on Sky news, sixty-seven percent were against them, and on GB News it was seventy-four percent against. So, it’s simply that your little world of twitter, student union protests and Glastonbury doesn’t reflect the world outside. Nothing to do with the Israeli Lobby swaying things at all.

Bernie: (Looks down for a second, thoughtful, before looking back at them) So, if you’re finished with this little lecture, can I go?

DS Byrne: (Looks briefly at DS Thomas) We haven’t decided yet. Supporting or promoting a terrorist group is quite a serious offence.

Bernie: Look – you didn’t charge my friend, Kevin, with anything last week, and he actually struck a police officer with that banner stick – so why would you charge me?

DS Byrne: Maybe the fact that Kevin didn’t know what he was doing, was just along for the ride that day – whereas you’re obviously a more seasoned protestor, and the fact that you kept that Hamas banner shielded and only raised it halfway shows that you did know what you were doing.

DS Thomas: Also, the other thing different today, if you’d noticed. There are two of us conducting this interview. Your friend Kevin was never going to be charged with only one officer present, because that’s against procedure.

Bernie: (Looks worried for the first time) So, what do you propose to do?

DS Byrne: That depends on how you answer our remaining questions. I asked your friend the same last week, so I’ll run through them quickly. Have you ever visited Israel or the Palestinian territories?

Bernie: No. No, I haven’t.

DS Byrne: Do you know any terrorists or have any terrorist connections?

Bernie: No.

DS Thomas: And the terrorist group, Hamas, that you were waving a banner for. What do you know about them?

Bernie: (Shrugs) Only what I’ve read online or seen in the Press… or on the TV. Oh, and we had a visit at Goldsmiths a few weeks back from a PSC Organizer, who gave us an update on the Gaza war.

DS Thomas: And did they describe Hamas as terrorists?

Bernie: They didn’t really get into that. Just talked mainly about the terrible death toll now in Gaza.

DS Thomas: Any mention of the atrocities committed by Hamas on October Seventh?

Bernie: It only really came up once when another student asked about it, and the PSC organizer said there was no real proof of Hamas atrocities on October Seventh. That it had probably all been invented by the Israelis. Hasbara.

DS Thomas: (Smiles wanly) Asa Winstanley said almost exactly the same thing when we questioned him coming back through Heathrow a month ago. Seems to be a standard line spun among Palestinian supporters.

DS Byrne: But believe you me, the atrocities they committed were very, very real. (Looks towards his colleague) We both saw them with our own eyes at a special showing at the MET a few months ago – the video sent hot-foot from the Israeli embassy. All taken on Hamas’s very own go-pro cameras. Men that will cut an infant’s head and limbs off or burn a whole family alive – does that sound like a bunch of cozy ‘freedom fighters’ to you?

Bernie: (Face pales) No, I guess not.

DS Thomas: But that’s who you were waving a banner for – so perhaps you now realize why we take this so seriously.

Bernie: I suppose so. (Looks dejected, but then appears to have a fresh thought) But you mention the Israeli Lobby has no influence on you, then in the next breath mention the Israeli embassy – and very obviously seem to be taking the Israeli side.

DS Thomas: It’s not our job to take sides. But we’re an anti-terrorist unit, so it’s part of our remit to keep up with the latest terrorist threats.

DS Byrne: And in case you hadn’t noticed, Jewish or Zionist terrorist threats in the UK are non-existent, whereas with Islam-linked terror attacks we’re spoilt for choice. (Smiles wryly) But perhaps if we get Jewish or Zionist bombers raising their palms ‘Fiddler on the Roof’ style and crying ‘Oy-Vey’ as they blow themselves up among a crowd of people, we might revise that opinion.

DS Thomas: (Chuckles lightly, then takes a fresh breath) Couldn’t have put it better myself. But I think we’ve done enough here to establish that he’s not a terrorist-linked threat.

Bernie: (Looking up hopefully) Does that mean I’m free to go?

DS Byrne: Just one last quick question. (Looks at Bernie levelly) If after the Ariana Grande bombing, which was linked to Al-Qaeda, we witnessed people on the streets with banners praising Al-Qaeda – how do you think most people would have felt about that?

Bernie: I think they’d have been upset, disgusted even.

DS Byrne: So now you hopefully understand how most Jewish people – and indeed many non-Jews – feel when they see a banner praising Hamas. Protest for an end to the war, by all means – but I hope it’s clearer now why we have strict rules about not praising or glorifying terrorist groups.

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John Matthews is an experienced writer and journalist. The author of 24 books, including two centred around WW2 and the holocaust in the name of J.C. Maetis (his father’s original Jewish name) his first experience of writing about the Middle East came as a war correspondent covering the last years of the Lebanese Civil War, which led to his second book, ‘The Crescents of the Moon’. He has since written on the subject for a number of journals, including The Times, Sunday Times, Newsweek, The Independent and The Spectator. He was also in the run-up to the millennium editor of European Brief, the main magazine for the European Parliament, editing the likes of Tony Blair, Al Gore and Henry Kissinger on subjects ranging from the fall of the Berlin Wall and European unity, climate change and nuclear fusion to, once again, the Middle East. He lives in London with his wife and family.

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