John, that ship ran aground, if indeed it were ever feasible, on October 7, 2023.
Your German example worked because they were all Germans and they were also subjugated in a way which would never fly in this century. You fall for the very concepts which CAUSED October 7.
You also fall for the fake stories about "settler violence" and minimise the real violence of Muslim society when it comes into contact with others.
The British received a mandate to recreate the Jewish National Home 100 years ago and immediately hived off 77% of it to create the previously non existent Kingdom of Transjordan, now Jordan, in which not a single Jew is allowed to live. There is zero difference between its people and those known as Palestinians. Incidentally, they also gifted the Golan to the French for their new protectorate which became Syria. To slash off even more will never again be accepted by Israel, while to leave even a rump state of Israel will never be accepted by the Arabs. Such a mess will only be used by the latter to continue attacking.
Integration? You just don't get it. Neither side wants it and it is a recipe for endless bloodbaths.
You will of course argue that Ireland managed. But again, they are all Irish.
As a related aside to this, why don't you look up the 'Federal Proposal' - which indeed was cited recently as Nachum Kaplan's favoured plan. My suggestion offers far less integration than the 'Federal Proposal'. I accept that both might not work, but we've seen in practice - from what has happened in Gaza - that two segregated societies right next door to each other doesn't work either.
When have I ever brought into the ‘settler violence’ issue? In fact, I wrote an entire article saying exactly the opposite and pulling apart the claim in no uncertain terms. You need to brush up on your reading skills.
You indeed wrote on the "aggression of extreme Israeli settlers" although it is the general tenor of your certainly well meaning theory which simply doesn't work.
John, you are one of the good guys but I'm sorry, here you have put a lot of work into fairyland.
You will be required to show how, where and why my theories don’t work. I will i n turn examine where you fail in your rebuttals.
A word of warning. I’ve been covering this conflict since I was 26 years old. I’m now 72. Even George Galloway, one of the fierest debaters, admitted he had to throw in the towel with me.
At present, it appears you have simply come up with a different view to me on certain aspects, but that falls short of me being actually wrong or earning the right to term it ‘fairyland’. You in turn are entitled to your own opinion, and are also entitled to be wrong. But I would stop short of terming it 'fairyland', would simply state that there was a gulf in our views and you were entitled to your view, however misplaced I thought it was.. Bottom line: you don't own the corner store on what is 'fairyland' or not.
The possibly misattributed to Einstein statement that madness is doing the same thing repeatedly in the expectation of different results applies here. You call for integration? With people who don't want it any more than we do? Who promise to do multiple repeats of October 7? Who will use every bit boff our land that they get from us to improve their offensive visiting?
No, John. There is no better proof than that. And you are incidentally offering them a prize for their crimes against humanity.
While your motives are not those of the antisemites, the effect is the same. If as I am sure, you are a true friend, you need to consider getting away from what we call "the concept" which gave us October 7.
Thank G*d we now have a CoS who understands, and hopefully we will soon have a head of the Shabak at least as good and probably better.
They replace proven believers in "the concept", throw enough money and land at them and they'll come around. They didn't. They won't.
I might be wrong with my suggestions. After all, which peace plan has so far been right?
But my premise is built on the fact that segregation - if both populations are still right next door to each other - doesn’t work. Look at Gaza. Judea-Samaria-West Bank only works slightly better, but then that’s a semi-segregation enforced by numerous barriers.
But when we look at complete integration, such as we have with the 20% Arab community in Israel, we see that that 98% works. So my premise is built on that. Take away their reasons to attack Israel, de-Jihadize them in the same way we de-Nazified Germany with a combination of tough new education and even tougher hate speech laws - 5 years fecking minimum for even saying you hate a Jew. As for broadcasting it or standing up in a pulpit and saying it, 10 years minimum. An actual terrorist offence - lock them up and throw away the key. But at the same time reward them for steering clear of terrorism with this integrated bit of land in which they can work alongside Israelis. And if they don’t, then that land on a shared lease basis starts getting chipped away from them.
I think the mistake you are making is you think I am like a limp-wristed liberal when I suggest these things. I’m far from it. I would be tougher on terrorism, including exercizing the death penalty, than any past Israeli leader. The moves on de-Jihadism would be brutal, not allowing them an inch to move. Heavy prison sentences and executions.
And if it showed signs of not working, that’s when you shift the Palestinians out. I reckon Iran should have space for a million or two, and they’ve always professed how much they love the Palestinians.
Leave aside all the rest, none ofvwhich is allowed 80 years after Dresden, we have time after time said what would happen "if", but the "then" never happened. The concept is dead. No more trust, not in the enemy, not in the politicians, not in the world and not in guarantees.
As the prophet of Aram, Bilaam, was forced to say in the Torah, Israel is a beutiful nation that lives alone.
John, that ship ran aground, if indeed it were ever feasible, on October 7, 2023.
Your German example worked because they were all Germans and they were also subjugated in a way which would never fly in this century. You fall for the very concepts which CAUSED October 7.
You also fall for the fake stories about "settler violence" and minimise the real violence of Muslim society when it comes into contact with others.
The British received a mandate to recreate the Jewish National Home 100 years ago and immediately hived off 77% of it to create the previously non existent Kingdom of Transjordan, now Jordan, in which not a single Jew is allowed to live. There is zero difference between its people and those known as Palestinians. Incidentally, they also gifted the Golan to the French for their new protectorate which became Syria. To slash off even more will never again be accepted by Israel, while to leave even a rump state of Israel will never be accepted by the Arabs. Such a mess will only be used by the latter to continue attacking.
Integration? You just don't get it. Neither side wants it and it is a recipe for endless bloodbaths.
You will of course argue that Ireland managed. But again, they are all Irish.
No John, back to the drawing board.
As a related aside to this, why don't you look up the 'Federal Proposal' - which indeed was cited recently as Nachum Kaplan's favoured plan. My suggestion offers far less integration than the 'Federal Proposal'. I accept that both might not work, but we've seen in practice - from what has happened in Gaza - that two segregated societies right next door to each other doesn't work either.
When have I ever brought into the ‘settler violence’ issue? In fact, I wrote an entire article saying exactly the opposite and pulling apart the claim in no uncertain terms. You need to brush up on your reading skills.
https://scribejohn.substack.com/p/are-settlers-violent
You indeed wrote on the "aggression of extreme Israeli settlers" although it is the general tenor of your certainly well meaning theory which simply doesn't work.
John, you are one of the good guys but I'm sorry, here you have put a lot of work into fairyland.
You will be required to show how, where and why my theories don’t work. I will i n turn examine where you fail in your rebuttals.
A word of warning. I’ve been covering this conflict since I was 26 years old. I’m now 72. Even George Galloway, one of the fierest debaters, admitted he had to throw in the towel with me.
At present, it appears you have simply come up with a different view to me on certain aspects, but that falls short of me being actually wrong or earning the right to term it ‘fairyland’. You in turn are entitled to your own opinion, and are also entitled to be wrong. But I would stop short of terming it 'fairyland', would simply state that there was a gulf in our views and you were entitled to your view, however misplaced I thought it was.. Bottom line: you don't own the corner store on what is 'fairyland' or not.
The possibly misattributed to Einstein statement that madness is doing the same thing repeatedly in the expectation of different results applies here. You call for integration? With people who don't want it any more than we do? Who promise to do multiple repeats of October 7? Who will use every bit boff our land that they get from us to improve their offensive visiting?
No, John. There is no better proof than that. And you are incidentally offering them a prize for their crimes against humanity.
While your motives are not those of the antisemites, the effect is the same. If as I am sure, you are a true friend, you need to consider getting away from what we call "the concept" which gave us October 7.
Thank G*d we now have a CoS who understands, and hopefully we will soon have a head of the Shabak at least as good and probably better.
They replace proven believers in "the concept", throw enough money and land at them and they'll come around. They didn't. They won't.
I might be wrong with my suggestions. After all, which peace plan has so far been right?
But my premise is built on the fact that segregation - if both populations are still right next door to each other - doesn’t work. Look at Gaza. Judea-Samaria-West Bank only works slightly better, but then that’s a semi-segregation enforced by numerous barriers.
But when we look at complete integration, such as we have with the 20% Arab community in Israel, we see that that 98% works. So my premise is built on that. Take away their reasons to attack Israel, de-Jihadize them in the same way we de-Nazified Germany with a combination of tough new education and even tougher hate speech laws - 5 years fecking minimum for even saying you hate a Jew. As for broadcasting it or standing up in a pulpit and saying it, 10 years minimum. An actual terrorist offence - lock them up and throw away the key. But at the same time reward them for steering clear of terrorism with this integrated bit of land in which they can work alongside Israelis. And if they don’t, then that land on a shared lease basis starts getting chipped away from them.
I think the mistake you are making is you think I am like a limp-wristed liberal when I suggest these things. I’m far from it. I would be tougher on terrorism, including exercizing the death penalty, than any past Israeli leader. The moves on de-Jihadism would be brutal, not allowing them an inch to move. Heavy prison sentences and executions.
And if it showed signs of not working, that’s when you shift the Palestinians out. I reckon Iran should have space for a million or two, and they’ve always professed how much they love the Palestinians.
Your last point undoes everything before it.
Leave aside all the rest, none ofvwhich is allowed 80 years after Dresden, we have time after time said what would happen "if", but the "then" never happened. The concept is dead. No more trust, not in the enemy, not in the politicians, not in the world and not in guarantees.
As the prophet of Aram, Bilaam, was forced to say in the Torah, Israel is a beutiful nation that lives alone.
* every bit of ... their offensive position